Digital Transformation in Manufacturing: How to Actually Make an Impact

Transcript

[00:00:48] Josh Santo: Our guest today has spent more than two decades at the intersection of manufacturing, technology, and transformation, and she has the scars to prove it. She’s seen digital initiatives succeed, she’s seen them stall, and she’s made a career out of knowing the difference. She holds a chemical engineering degree from the University of Oklahoma with advanced studies at Harvard and Northwestern, and built her expertise across large-scale transformation work at Accenture, where she led global teams and major operational transformations, as well as at Microsoft, where she served as a global strategic account director, helping manufacturers accelerate digital change from the inside.

[00:01:31] Josh Santo: Now, that combination of engineering foundation, consulting experience, and technology fluency gives her a rare ability to sit in any room, whether that’s the plant floor or the boardroom, or even in the IT department, and translate between all of them. Today, she serves as vice president of digital at Nalco Water, an Ecolab company, where she leads commercial digital strategy for industrial manufacturing customers across food and beverage, energy, chemicals, mining, and more.

[00:02:00] Josh Santo: Her focus is squarely on helping manufacturers use digital capabilities to get more out of their existing operations, not for technology’s sake, but to drive measurable results. Please welcome to the Shop Floor/Top Floor Talk Show, Anne Emberson.

[00:02:17] Josh Santo: Anne, thanks for joining us today.

[00:02:19] Anne Emberson: Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

[00:02:21] Josh Santo: For the listeners on the call, it’s been a few months in the making. Scheduling just hasn’t worked out, and I’ve gone back and forth. But I will say Anne proactively and consistently followed up with me, which is the opposite. Sometimes I gotta hunt down guests and say, “Hey, you said you’d be on this thing,” but so I appreciate your willingness to keep coming on

[00:02:42] Anne Emberson: Thanks. Thanks for having me. Thanks for putting this together. I think it’s really valuable to the industry and everybody out there. So appreciate you championing this and bringing it forth to the community

[00:02:54] Josh Santo: We’re here talking today about what is now a classic buzzword in manufacturing. It’s a digital transformation. We’re gonna be digging into digital transformation, but here’s the thing, we’re gonna do something different.

[00:03:05] Josh Santo: We’re gonna dig into the reality of it, not the hype. We’re gonna explore what drives it, what blocks it, and what it actually takes to go from a good idea to something that sticks across your organization. But before we do any of that, we’re gonna start like we always do. We’re gonna get to know a little bit about our guest and why you should even take the time to listen to her to begin with.

[00:03:29] Josh Santo: So Anne, let’s talk about your life, a day in the life for you as Vice President of Digital at Nalco Water.

[00:03:38] Anne Emberson: It’s hard to say that two days are ever the same, and I think that a lot of that just stems from digital is evolving at such a rapid pace that, different things, curve balls get thrown your way in all different directions, and we have to take what’s thrown our way and utilize the tools and technology to turn that into something actionable.

[00:03:58] Anne Emberson: So it could be anything from working with our customers to working on internal problem-solving to doing team events, coaching, your typical admin meetings. But it’s always fun. One thing I love about it is there’s always a new challenge around the corner, so that’s what keeps me going.

[00:04:18] Josh Santo: And you’ve said something that is absolutely true, I think more so now than ever before, which is technology evolving at a rapid pace. My goodness. I know technology’s always been advancing, but with everything related to AI right now and the agentic AI, the agentic enterprise industrial AI, it’s almost as if whatever you know today is already outdated a week from now.

[00:04:49] Josh Santo: How are not only you keeping up, but making sure that your team is keeping up?

[00:04:55] Anne Emberson: It’s a hard one. I always say if anybody tells you they know everything that’s going on, one thing is true about that and that they’re lying because it’s not humanly possible to stay up to date on every single thing because just what you said, Josh, what you’re saying today and right here, right now is becoming the old historical, not the new thing.

[00:05:13] Anne Emberson: So it’s really important for our team to really stay outwardly focused and see, what’s on the brink, what are our customers doing, what are other technology vendors doing, what’s the world doing? As well as internally focus on, what are our processes and things that we’re doing internally.

[00:05:31] Anne Emberson: Because I think what’s really important is finding those intersections to bridge the new with, what’s reality. Because technology for the sake of technology, that’s not gonna get you anywhere. You’ve gotta actually be able to execute and reap value out of the utilization of technology.

[00:05:52] Josh Santo: Absolutely. It has to drive some sort of change.

[00:05:56] Josh Santo: I give an example all the time. I got an Oura Ring a little bit late last year. Are you familiar with Oura Rings?

[00:06:03] Anne Emberson: I am. I don’t have one. I have the Apple Watch, but not the Oura Ring yet.

[00:06:07] Josh Santo: I have the Apple Watch, one. I also have an Apple Watch as well. These devices that’ll essentially bring data points behind your health.

[00:06:14] Josh Santo: It’s almost like they’re IoT sensors for your body for lack of a better description. And what are they doing? They’re ultimately generating data within their respective apps, and they are revealing certain trends or correlations or things to pay attention to based on their large data set that they have. But here’s the thing. I look at my Oura Ring app and it says, “Hey, you should probably go to sleep around 10:30.” And I’m looking at it at 12:30 thinking “Yeah, that’s probably true.” And then nothing changes, right? And so my point with that entire spiel is to your point that technology for the sake of technology doesn’t actually do any good.

[00:06:54] Josh Santo: It has to drive some sort of change. And I swear, at some point I’m gonna go to bed earlier, I’m gonna get 10,000 steps in, just not today

[00:07:04] Anne Emberson: It is funny though, ’cause it’s like what’s gonna drive the change? What’s the encouraging behavior? And, I think that’s where the people aspect comes into play a lot. And do you have somebody else… Like I know I have a friend of mine, it’s “Okay, how many steps did you get in?”

[00:07:18] Anne Emberson: And it’s a little bit of an accountability piece, and I think that that helps with the adoption. What are people that you can lean on you or hold you accountable to, to actually utilize it and make value out of it? Maybe you’ll go to bed at 10:30 tonight, or at least 11.

[00:07:35] Josh Santo: Love it. Yeah, so for all you listeners, check in with me, hold me accountable, make sure I’m going to bed early. That’s a key word though, accountable, right? These digital tools bring data that lets you get some visibility into some aspect of your operation, but it’s ultimately not what drives change.

[00:07:53] Josh Santo: I think a lot of people like to think that if the solution is powerful enough, if it’s easy enough to use, if people love it, then they’re gonna use it. But at the end of the day, people don’t wanna change. People are gonna resist just because. That’s what we do. That word accountable I think is very important because now that you have data, folks in the right positions whether that’s a leadership position or even your peers, can see and say, “Look at the data showing me this. If we’re doing the right things, it should look a little bit more like this. Let’s make sure you or our team or whomever are actually taking the action and having the behaviors and the discipline and the execution that we’re wanting.” So I think that’s such a great word for you to call out, Anne, accountable, and I think that’s something that gets missed in the conversation around technology. Now, one of the things you mentioned is your team is outwardly focused in learning about the new innovations in technology.

[00:08:52] Josh Santo: I had a quick question about that. What are some of the ways in which your team, or some of the sources I should say, your team is going to understand about the innovations, the newest, latest improvements in technology, what customers are doing, et cetera?

[00:09:09] Anne Emberson: I mean, it really ranges. I leave it up to the individual on what fits what their needs are the best. But anything from local or conferences. We did a team meeting at CES this year, in January. That was really cool to really see how innovation drives and what’s, i- in the forefront.

[00:09:28] Anne Emberson: Staying abreast with industry and industry groups as well as just various vendors that are out there. What do they have to bring to the table? ‘Cause there’s always something new around the corner

[00:09:40] Josh Santo: There is. Yeah, it’s always fun going to those events because you see some crazy things. I’m going to one coming up. It’s called Rethink, and it’s focused on digital transformation, Industry 4.0 in manufacturing. Rethink is a, I think, a good description for that event because the whole concept is like, look, you may not even realize how what you’re doing today is really determined by a series of constraints and compromises that you had to make. And with the creations of these new tools and technologies, you do have the opportunity to rethink so many different aspects of your business, whether that’s the way that you manage production or the way that you enable new people to get up to speed with how to perform a particular process. So I think when you call out on conferences, you see some crazy things. I saw at the last one, It wasn’t Boston Dynamics. They have the robot dog, but there’s a rival robotics company that also has a robotic dog, and that thing was just walking around the event, and really cool to see out there, but it also gets the brain going ’cause the conversation here at EASE we’re focused around audits, inspections, corrective actions, et cetera. Imagine that robot dog kind of observing some aspect or going and checking some of the unsafe areas where you don’t want people to be. Like, it’s just this technology opens up that conversation around what if we did things differently? What would that look like?

[00:11:11] Anne Emberson: Yeah. Those robots dogs are always interesting when you see them, walk up on stage or walking through the showroom and, who would’ve thought that we could’ve had dog robots walking through a plant and do an inspection or, go into an area that maybe has potential, H2S gas that you don’t wanna send a person into.

[00:11:32] Anne Emberson: So a lot of real, real good, applicable cases, and I think that also puts a point on, where do you focus and where do you start? It’s like, where are those pain points? Where are the challenges? What are things people don’t wanna do because they’re difficult or they’re challenging, or we’re not getting out of it what we need to do, or it’s just an unsafe environment.

[00:11:53] Anne Emberson: And then how do we layer on technology and digital capabilities to enable our workforce to do safer, smarter actions to yield those outcomes?

[00:12:05] Josh Santo: Yeah. And even that, that’s a broad topic ’cause that can be applied to anything. But to your point, what is the problem that we need to solve? Or, in some cases it may not seem like a problem at first, and it’s, as you mentioned, understanding the technology that’s out there. You may never use it, but you have it then in your repertoire of tools to say, “Here’s…

[00:12:25] Josh Santo: We need to improve blank.” If we’re mapping out our process and our value stream and we look at wherever our constraints are popping up or difficulties are, maybe then you find that, that way to improve. But, you also just mentioned another key word, focus, right? And I’m curious, digital can be applied in many different aspects of an organization. What’s your area of focus with regard to digital transformation?

[00:12:53] Anne Emberson: So we’re really focused, especially on the water and the utility side. How do we operationalize that in such a way that we can enhance the asset reliability but also improve the sustainability lens? And with all the data centers coming up and the push for electricity and the need for water is becoming… I think everybody thinks water will always be there.

[00:13:15] Anne Emberson: But in reality, if there’s one thing that we need in life to live, it’s water. And so we can’t go without water. So how are we looking to continue to maintain the lifestyles we want with all the things that we want in the manufacturing world that are utilizing water to produce things but then also making sure that water is a resource that can be scarce if we don’t handle it properly.

[00:13:39] Anne Emberson: Leveraging various AI or other analytics to be able to improve how we’re treating water and desalination and other pieces like that really can make a difference not only to day-to-day working, but to the world as a whole.

[00:13:54] Josh Santo: A very foundational element that, you’re right, I think gets taken for granted all the time. So many of the factories in the world are relying on it, it’s obvious, but water is part of their production process. And then you mentioned, what’s a hot topic these days is the data centers, right? The server farms and the amount of water that they will inevitably consume in order to keep things cool, et cetera. I’m curious as a bit of an aside a big piece of y- a big topic that we see in C-level initiatives or board-back initiatives are related to ESG sustainability. And I’m curious if you’ve seen anything around how AI and the need for AI to use these different data centers and I think I read somewhere, like one chat with ChatGPT consumes 2,700 gallons of water or something. I’m– Don’t quote me on that. I know that number is off, but the spirit is that whenever you use AI, even in the slightest amount, it’s consuming this precious resource. I’m curious, have you seen anything around concerns about how the use of AI within manufacturing may negatively impact a company’s sustainability goals?

[00:15:18] Anne Emberson: I mean, I think you bring up a good point because don’t think that a lot of people are thinking like that. We did a little experiment, if you will and I don’t remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but we basically had ChatGPT write us a rock song and with the music and all of that, and the amount of energy and water it took to write that song was equivalent to, I want to say 1% of a steel production utilization.

[00:15:51] Anne Emberson: And so pretty substantial at the end of the day, just that one little song when like you have people, “Oh, that song’s not good enough. Let’s do it again. Let’s reiterate, reiterate.” ‘Cause like how often is what AI spits out, you want it to refine it, so then you’re constantly doing it. And so I think a lot of people aren’t thinking about what is the churn that it’s requiring, and it’s gonna make us think smarter on how we’re using things.

[00:16:16] Anne Emberson: And then, I don’t know, I also believe that maybe that’s gonna take things more to the edge where, less compute is gonna happen in the data centers and – maybe there’s gonna k- be technology that’s gonna come to the forefront that’s gonna be able to be more on the edge or, obviously I think the hope is, how do you reduce the energy, to be able to run these data centers and be able to get the compute power that AI needs utilizing a lower threshold of utilities.

[00:16:45] Josh Santo: Yeah. I think that’s a great call-out. What can you push to the edge? Which I know plenty of companies are focusing on and trying to improve upon, but you just right now can’t beat the power that comes from a dedicated center and all of it, right? It’s just technologically different.

[00:17:03] Josh Santo: But if the problem’s there, and I have no doubt that someone’s working on it right now, and I’m eager to see what changes do come in that edge computing experience. And for listeners who aren’t familiar with edge computing, we’re talking about thinking about all the analysis or the kinda intelligence of the AI being applied via a device that is local.

[00:17:25] Josh Santo: Think right on the shop floor. It could be like an IT server room but the point is this is not relying on a massive data center. Instead, the computing’s happening on premise kinda thing. Let’s talk a little bit about digital transformation and your experience and with what manufacturers most commonly get wrong about digital transformation. What have you seen?

[00:17:46] Anne Emberson: I think a lot of times people want everything to be perfect. They wanna have all the right data. It needs to be exact, accurate, 100% accurate, 100% precise, et cetera. And if we’re waiting for perfect data, we’re likely gonna be waiting an infinite amount of time. So making sure that we all have a ton of data in the manufacturing space, so let’s take that and use that to action on, I would say that would be the number one thing.

[00:18:13] Anne Emberson: And then the number two thing is getting that cohesive group of people together in that, no single problem is for an individual, and there’s various silos within our organizations. And how do these problems cross over between silos? And bringing in that cross-functional group early on to really help, reinvent the process or reinvent the solution so that when we’re applying a layer of digital or technology to help drive improvement and gain value, maybe we’re looking at the data differently.

[00:18:48] Anne Emberson: And instead of having to, create something, drive change, and then create it again once we bring in another group, by having kind of that bigger picture, I think it forces us to think big and then come to the solution.

[00:19:01] Josh Santo: Yeah, waiting for perfection. You’re not gonna have it all right. Like you said, you’re not gonna have all the right data. The results at first are not gonna be 100% of what the potential is, but the important thing is to get started and get those learnings going. And the cross-functional piece I think you mentioned is pretty important too.

[00:19:20] Josh Santo: You want representatives who have different expertises about whatever the function is that we’re talking about. Who are all the stakeholders? Which groups are affected by blank? Okay, let’s get together and make sure we understand who needs what, why, et cetera, how they get it today, et cetera, and then work together on what’s gonna solve the problem for that entire flow, and not just in this kinda silo, ’cause anytime you’re working in silos, you’re missing out on the broader implications, the ripple effect that might hit in the industry.

[00:19:53] Josh Santo: So I think those are all great points. You mentioned earlier, and we talked about this, technology for technology’s sake is not going to work. It has to drive change. I think this is one thing that folks struggle with regard to just about any digital initiative, is really determining what change was made like what actually changed, and then the results of that change. Can you speak to us a little bit about how manufacturers can set themselves up for success in digital transformation projects by understanding what needs to change, how it changed, and the impact that it had on the business?

[00:20:38] Anne Emberson: Sure. I would say first and foremost, to start out not thinking of it as like a technology or an IT or a digital project. It is, we are solving an operational challenge, I think that changes the mindset. So first and foremost, change the mindset in, how we’re solving this problem, and then be able to tie key KPIs in, financials or metrics to that, so that once it’s rolled out, there’s a measurable outcome.

[00:21:13] Anne Emberson: I think probably a lot of people have been exposed to the DMAIC principle and some of those things where, you know, you need to define, measure, et cetera. That– I think those two things are imperative. So making sure that you look at it as an, you’re solving an operational challenge, project, et cetera, to solve an out- to solve for an outcome, and that you’re able to assign measurable KPIs, be it financial or operational metrics.

[00:21:45] Josh Santo: So when you say changing the mindset, you talk about, this is not an IT digital project. This is an operational challenge that we’re looking to either fix or improve upon, et cetera. So everyone keep in mind that the goal is to improve blank. So now we’ve just defined essentially our problem statement.

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[00:24:11] Josh Santo: So I love how you called out DMAIC. I love it not because it necessarily has to be DMAIC, but you’re essentially saying we’ve got tools for problem-solving. You know how to do these things already. Apply that in the same principle as well. So when you’re planning some sort of digital project, keep in mind it’s that operational project.

[00:24:32] Josh Santo: Define that problem that must be solved, work through the different aspects of your preferred problem-solving methodology, find those root causes that you can tackle, and the tools that will help you either overcome or completely eliminate whatever those causes may be, and tie that to what the business impact is going to be.

[00:24:54] Josh Santo: And you may have to do some iterations of this because you may find one tool is super expensive, but it also gives you the best results, but the best results are only 2% more than this much cheaper tool that doesn’t give you the same amount of things. So you do have to kinda weigh in that idea of it’s not just perfection, it’s really what’s gonna work best for the business based on a series of constraints and trade-offs et cetera.

[00:25:21] Josh Santo: So I think that was a great call-out on its mindset. Treat it like a problem to solve, not as a digital tool to implement.

[00:25:30] Anne Emberson: And one thing I could add to that too, I think that was a good call out on how much you’re gonna pay for this, maybe it’s not worth it. Also, we know that technology is gonna continue to evolve. We can’t see into the future, but to the best that we can do, how do we build to predict the future so that we’re not boxing ourselves into something that we’re going to have to necessarily re-engineer in order to move to the next stage when the next opportunity arises or the next new technology comes?

[00:26:04] Anne Emberson: We can only do so much, but I think it’s important that we don’t get too siloed today and we still maintain a level of what tomorrow looks like.

[00:26:13] Josh Santo: Yeah. And that’s a real struggle point in digital transformation from folks that I have spoken with. I talked with a chief manufacturing officer of a food and beverage company, and he talked about how, he gets anywhere from 15 to 50 outreaches per day for people trying to sell him on the latest, greatest technology.

[00:26:35] Josh Santo: Here’s the problem to solve, and he’s “These are all problems that are valid to tackle, but there’s so much that I have to do. What I really want is a roadmap.” Those foundational elements of here are the things to tackle, here are the philosophies to use, here’s what to drive towards. And so that’s what he partners with an organization to help map out what their own digital journey is gonna look like for their organization so that they can then slot in and prioritize with that understanding that things are going to evolve, but the problems that need to be tackled are still going to exist. And, a lot of companies are further along in their digital journey, so you are able, in some cases with some technology, able to look at what others are doing if they’re sharing to say, “Okay, here’s the impact we could potentially expect by doing that.”

[00:27:23] Anne Emberson: Yep. And it’s important that the road is not straight, it’s meandering. Like you’re gonna… with that roadmap, it’s gonna be evergreen, and so you’re gonna see changes, but at least having some forward visibility into that three, five-year horizon, it is critical.

[00:27:41] Josh Santo: Yeah. Absolutely. I agree that it’s critical but just because we think it’s critical doesn’t mean that others think it’s critical or urgent. I’m curious about your perspective on what’s driving digital adoption in manufacturing. From your experience, what’s actually moving the needle and what are people overlooking?

[00:28:02] Anne Emberson: I mean, At the end of the day, I think what moves the needle is dollars and cents. What is our ROI? How are we making money? How are we making a difference? Either producing more, making more money, producing the same amount for less, et cetera. So right, wrong, or indifferent, the dollar drives us in many ways.

[00:28:22] Anne Emberson: So I think that is important to, to stay focused on that, we can’t, invest $100,000 to save a dollar, but I’ll invest a dollar all day long to save $100,000. So making sure that you have that right kind of ROI in place is important as well as really finding the champions to change.

[00:28:46] Anne Emberson: So not only… I think it’s three focuses, it’s the technology, it’s the people, and it’s the problem. And if you can hit the trifecta with all three of those being strong, then I think that’s like the perfect recipe for a successful project. You’re always gonna have bumps along the way, but if you have those three foundational pieces, I think you can push through and get to the end result.

[00:29:12] Josh Santo: Yeah. The people one I think is particularly important because there’s certainly problems to solve, and there’s certainly tools to solve them, but the people piece is such a huge variable when it comes to the success of these types of projects. From your perspective, what’s required in that people category?

[00:29:34] Josh Santo: You mentioned champion but who needs to be involved? Who needs to be driving digital? Is it a cultural thing? Give us your thoughts on the people side of digital transformation

[00:29:45] Anne Emberson: do think it’s a cultural thing. I think it has to be up and down the org. So it has to be from the shop floor to the ivory tower, if you wanna call it that, and everything in between. And it’s important that you have the end user as part of some of that upfront work. While they may not understand all the intricacies of the digital and technology components, they understand the process.

[00:30:10] Anne Emberson: And so really making sure that you have that broad swath of engagement. Sometimes I’ve found the biggest naysayer can be the best person to be on the project team because if you can convince them to do it, and they have the respect of their coworkers, then, the rollout might be easier.

[00:30:28] Anne Emberson: Not always the best decision, but I’ve seen that work. So I think it’s really just making sure you have people involved, that their voices can be heard, and that they also understand what the challenge they’re trying to solve against.

[00:30:43] Josh Santo: Yeah, y- that idea of you gotta have people from the shop floor to the top floor, which is why we named the podcast Shop Floor to Top Floor Talk Show. We wanna drive those conversations from the shop floor to the top floor because I agree with your perspective. It’s gonna take– It takes both, right?

[00:30:59] Josh Santo: You need leadership at the top level to say, “This is where we’re going. This is the direction that we’re heading.” You need the people that report up to them to help drive that vision. You need the people who are actually gonna do the work and be affected the most by the change to be a part of the change process, to raise up, “Here are the ways in which we can turn this idea into a reality because we work and we experience this problem every single day.” Now, your point about getting the naysayer involved, that’s a tough one, a valid one, completely. If you are able to reframe the naysaying from, “We shouldn’t do this because…” to, “If we wanna do this, we have to consider blank.” You’re saying the same thing. You’re raising the same objection, but it is coming from that more collaborative experience because it takes a lot of discipline, particularly at a leadership level, to, to sift through the, quote-unquote, negative feedback to really understand, Are they raising problems that need to be solved, or are they just resisting change?

[00:32:04] Josh Santo: And if the naysayer is like, “No change, no circumstance,” you risk derailing some momentum there.

[00:32:13] Anne Emberson: Yeah. Change is inevitable. There’s one thing that’s guaranteed in life, and that’s change, so

[00:32:19] Anne Emberson: Yeah. Yeah. That’s changed, and it’s not water from our conversation so keep that in mind. And maybe that’s the change that’s coming. Boy, I hope not, And help us save and protect our water supply. We talked a little bit about digital transformation. We talked a little bit about some things that people get wrong.

[00:32:41] Josh Santo: You know we mentioned that idea of perfect data being a starting point. We talked about the importance of kinda having this operational mindset and defining the problem that needs to be solved and connecting it to an ROI. I- in my experience, there are plenty of problems to be solved with clear ROI after solving them. There’s plenty of ideas. There’s not always enough resources, whether that’s people, the time, the money. How can people in manufacturing get leadership support, AKA money, to bring their ideas to life?

[00:33:19] Anne Emberson: I think it’s important to not give up. So just because your idea is not chosen today doesn’t mean it can’t be chosen tomorrow. So I think that’s one thing to keep in mind. The second thing is what problem are you trying to solve and how critical is it to the organization? And start putting, I’m gonna call it a business case, but it doesn’t have to be a buttoned-up business case, but really capturing what we are solving?

[00:33:45] Anne Emberson: What are they, what is the value that we’re providing? And then continue to take that forward. And I go back to, it’s like you can have everything but not all at the same time mentality. It may not be the time for that project now, but if it truly is solving the operational challenges and the manufacturing challenges, then be resilient and keep bringing that up.

[00:34:09] Anne Emberson: And then the other thing equally as important is when to shelf something. When to say either put it to bed or put it on the shelf and say, “We’ll come back to it,” or just bury it because nobody’s perfect. We all learn from our failures, and I think it’s important to know that everything isn’t gonna be a smashing success every time.

[00:34:28] Anne Emberson: We’ve all had our ups and downs and challenges, and so recognizing that and not taking it personally, but really, looking to solve the problem. Obviously we don’t wanna throw money down the drain, but at the same time, if we identify that, then it gives us the ability to pivot and maybe we can fold in another project to, to drive those outcomes and success.

[00:34:51] Josh Santo: What do you think is needed from leadership to ensure that folks aren’t getting discouraged and thus stop bringing up their ideas and perspective and feedback while navigating what you just called out? Sometimes it’s not right now or it’s just a complete “No we’re never gonna do this.” How can leadership navigate that situation to make sure that their team still feels empowered to contribute in that way?

[00:35:18] Anne Emberson: Transparency at the end of the day, but nothing’s like a sheet of glass. Nothing’s completely transparent. But just knowing that ideas are heard, response, feedback, that roadmap we talked about earlier, making sure that’s reviewed on a regular basis with the whole organization and people can kinda see where they’re going.

[00:35:37] Anne Emberson: And I, I’ve even had where, you know, given teams time to say, “Okay, I want you to set aside X amount of time each week, each month, et cetera, to think about what new breakthrough ideas can we be thinking about?” Because you need to get in the right head space. Like when you’re in execute mode, sometimes you’re not in that creative mode.

[00:35:56] Anne Emberson: I think it’s important for leadership to make sure that people have time to think in that element as well as have visibility. ‘Cause if, people don’t know why things are coming, I think that’s also a recipe for a much more difficult change transformation because nobody likes to get thrown a shit sandwich, but

[00:36:17] Anne Emberson: But like you wanna, you kinda wanna know what’s coming and not just get blindsided.

[00:36:23] Josh Santo: Yeah. I think that’s a great call-out. Transparency, in that, I’m reading in between your lines a little bit, but there’s a bit of vulnerability there as well, and space, carving out and protecting the space for your team to do that, just as important with problem-solving as it is with… I guess technically we’re still talking about problem-solving. So I had spoken with an individual who championed this idea that people solve problems, so you have to create the space for people to solve those problems. If you’re just reacting, fire-fire mode, et cetera, you’re never gonna get ahead of those problems. And you’re echoing those sentiments as well. You gotta protect the space, the time for people to actually do that. And then the visibility. You brought this up. Here’s where it sits on our list of priorities, that sort of thing. And you have to have… I think I’ll add to it.

[00:37:10] Josh Santo: You have to have just transparent conversations where, you know, you as a leader say, “I hear you. I understand your idea. I understand the impact it’s gonna have. I understand how it would make your life better and maybe even stand out as a personal accomplishment to you. We aren’t able to do that for these reasons, and that’s not going to change.”

[00:37:35] Josh Santo: You have to be able to have just that direct, straight con- That’s that transparency that you were talking about, but it’s also on that emotional vulnerability side of “Let me connect with you as a person. I hear you. I see you. It’s not gonna happen, and I know that’s probably not what you wanna hear, but help us accomplish X, Y, and Z.” And then from a leadership perspective, we also have to be okay with people saying, “You know what? That’s not good enough for me. I’m gonna find a place that is more in line with the things that I wanna do.” And that’s tough, but that’s okay, too

[00:38:06] Anne Emberson: Yep. Absolutely.

[00:38:08] Josh Santo: Now, one thing that is everywhere right now, we even talked about it earlier, is AI. And everyone that I talk to is talking about AI in manufacturing. What do you think is the most overhyped thing that people believe about AI right now, and where do you think it’s actually delivering in manufacturing?

[00:38:31] Anne Emberson: So I think probably the overhype is, I would say it’s two things on the overhype is one, AI can do everything, and two, AI is gonna take over all our jobs. And I think both of those are myths if we’re gonna do the myth, MythBusters. But AI is not gonna solve every challenge right here, right now.

[00:38:54] Anne Emberson: And it’s starting to take over your jobs. The purpose of AI is to allow us to make decisions smarter, faster, better, and pivot how we’re working as an organization, be it from a people standpoint or a process standpoint or asset standpoint. And so where I’ve seen people being successful is being able to take those slivers of AI and layer them on top of each other.

[00:39:22] Anne Emberson: So start somewhere, start now, and grow on it. To me, digital is just like planting a garden. It’s evergreen. You have to water it. If you’re like my neighbor and you don’t water your tree, you’re gonna replace it every year. You have to water your plants, you have to water your flowers, you have to water, you have to water this stuff in order for it to prosper.

[00:39:43] Anne Emberson: So if you’re not constantly feeding into AI, then it’s not gonna continue to grow. As well as, that’s how AI learns. You have to feed it the information so that it can generate the predictions.

[00:39:55] Josh Santo: There’s also an element to it if you have to build muscle, right? You have to build the discipline of this is the new way of working with things, so this is how we have to approach it. So it’s as much about the AI learning as it is about you learning how to work with the AI and your team and organization learning to think in that new way. I like that you called out AI’s not gonna be able to do everything. It’s not gonna take over your job. I would add to that it’s not gonna do it at a quality that is needed, not anytime soon. It can cer- I was talking with a former plant manager about this on pr- the topic of problem solving and using AI. It can certainly come up with solutions to your problem. Whether or not those solutions actually solve your problem is a totally different conversation. This podcast as ex- you said it’s not gonna take over your job. There are AI tools that will develop a back-and-forth podcast for you. Have you seen

[00:40:52] Anne Emberson: Talking heads the conversation and it’s like you can’t take away human thought. And to me, I think that’s a pro and a con with AI.

[00:41:03] Anne Emberson: Cannot lose the thought process and the ability to think, because with that, I think we’re all doomed for failure. But, it really should challenge us to think bigger, think differently and like you said, do things differently. But like it can’t just take away the thought. Like we’re not a bunch of robots, just walking around.

[00:41:26]Josh Santo: Yeah. It’s almost like you have to interrogate AI, like to the nth degree. Cite your sources, prove it, like all that sort of thing. Okay, one final question for you, Anne. We’ve talked a lot about digital transformation, manufacturing. Let’s kinda take a step back.

[00:41:42] Josh Santo: What’s happening in the world of manufacturing that’s got you excited?

[00:41:48] Anne Emberson: I think we’re really getting to that tipping point in the manufacturing space where technology is meeting manufacturing where it is and, really to be able to utilize some of the learnings that the back office have learned from, but then take that in a reduced risk scenario to, to drive different outcomes.

[00:42:09] Anne Emberson: And it’s really exciting to see, we’re not just gonna go put up, build a new refinery tomorrow or build some of these big manufacturing spaces, but like how do we think differently and work through that? And I truly think we’re approaching that tipping point where we’re gonna really start to see a lot of value integrated, ’cause like I said, you can’t just technology for the sake of technology, and you’ve got to maintain that level of technical competency in what the manufacturing process is trying to do. And that can’t be lost or fall on deaf ears.

[00:42:43] Josh Santo: Yeah, I agree. A tipping point. You can see it, you can feel it. I do think all the innovations in AI are really driving that and forcing some things that need to happen in order for that to manifest, just that just embracing basic digital digitization creates unified data models to understand what your different systems are putting in place.

[00:43:04] Josh Santo: I think there’s, there really is a spur of this new thing that is legitimately going to change and be an enabler of change, and we have a lot of work to do to even consider tapping into that. Anne, a lot of great takeaways today. Really appreciate you taking the time to join us for the Shop Floor/Top Floor Talk Show. Thanks so much for stopping by

[00:43:25] Anne Emberson: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it, Josh.